My Favourite Beatles Song

She Came In Through the Bathroom Window – Tom Doyle

• Tim Tucker • Season 2 • Episode 24

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Tim is joined by music journalist and author Tom Doyle to explore She Came in Through the Bathroom Window. They examine the song’s place in the Abbey Road medley, its strange and vivid lyric, Ringo’s irresistible groove, George’s guitar work, and the song’s deep connection to Southern soul. Tom also reflects on interviewing Paul, Ringo, and Yoko Ono, and discusses his books.


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SPEAKER_08

Welcome to my favourite Beatles Song, the podcast where we celebrate the music of the Beatles with a distinguished guest. I'm Tim Tucker, and with me today is music journalist and author Tom Doyle. Welcome, Tom. Hello, how are you doing? Good to see you. I'm very well, and thank you for making time today. We'll talk more about your work later, which includes um obviously you've done a lot of journalism for the likes of Mojo and Q and Guardian and Times. You've also written some books about the Beatles, Paul McCartney, and many other musicians. And your latest book is The Ringo, isn't it? The um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which um I couldn't tell. Is it coming out in paperback soon, or is that later in the year?

SPEAKER_09

It's coming out in the UK later in the year in paperback, and it comes out in the States May 12th, I think.

SPEAKER_08

Oh, great. I always ask my guests, what was your first memory of the Beatles?

SPEAKER_09

Well, this is a bit mad actually, because I mean this is literally one of my first memories. So when I was about so I'm from Dundee in Scotland, but we lived in London for about nine months when I was about four. Um, I've always tried to work this out, you know, was it 1970, 1971? But I can remember stealing a copy of this is mad, right? But I remember stealing a copy of Nielsen's Without You from a babysitter, and that was 71. Yeah, I remember honestly, that's nuts, isn't it? Like I pushed it under the record player and nicked it off her. But um around about that time, yeah, I was given a pile of singles uh by one of my dad's pals who was joking and saying, you know, when we do our office cleaning stuff at night, you know, we often find singles in the bin. Uh, because it was obvious I was record-obsessed or whatever. And as it turned out, it was just his record collection that he gave me. But I mean, it must have been about 100-150 singles, and lots of these were Beatles singles and EPs. So, I mean, before I was even aware of what they looked like or even the significance of the Beatles, uh, these were the ones that I was most drawn to, actually. I I mean, I can remember some of the other singles in there, like ska singles, and there was a free one and stuff, but I almost literally well I did learn to read, you know, with the labels, like Yes, it is, and this boy, you know. And so this stuff was like completely magical to me. Uh, and then you know, I it it went through. I mean, basically up to about the age of 10, I was pretty much Beatles obsessed, and then I moved on to other stuff really. Um, so yeah, I mean, literally my first I would say there's one memory I have in Scotland before that, but no, being in London and playing those singles is I would say one of my first ever memories. So formative, yeah. Yeah, that was it. I was suckered then from that point.

SPEAKER_08

Excellent. And um do you have a favourite period from either the the initial Fab Four Beatlemania period to the middle psychedelia folk or the late scary hairy Beatles?

SPEAKER_09

Well, them all, right? Because I mean I basically moved through them. So I mean those early Beatles singles when I was like four or five, and then from that point I moved through. So I remember getting Sgt. Pepper for Christmas one year. The Beatles, like the middle period was quite scary to me as a kid, right? Because I mean, you think about that locked groove thing, right, at the end of Sergeant Pepper. And weirdly, I was interviewing Phil Collins last week, right? And I was talking to him about his uh Tomorrow Never Knows, and we just got on uh talking about that mid-period thing, and I talked about that locked groove thing and how it was scary, and he said, Yeah, they're coming to get me, and that's literally what it felt like, actually. I also found I Am the Walrus quite scary when I was a kid too. Um, I mean it's nuts. I mean, how do you have no reference point for any of this? It's like a bloody horror movie or whatever on a record, you know. Um and but but I moved through, I suppose I did more or less chronologically move through. I mean, I didn't have all the records because obviously, you know, you're getting these things from pocket money and you know, all this sort of stuff. But by the time I was eight or nine, I had uh uh the White Album and Abbey Road, and those were the ones that I played constantly, actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_08

Right. And did you in your during your career as a journalist and writer, have you ever met The Beatles, their entourage, um, or seen them live?

SPEAKER_09

Well, yes, I mean, where do I start? I mean, I've been in a very fortunate position. I mean, I think you know, before I met anybody involved with it, uh, I went to Abbey Road Studio 2 a few times, like in the late 80s and into the 90s and stuff. And it's funny, I mean, like you know, the 80s the Beatles were kind of forgotten, weren't they? Um and I remember I worked at Smash It's at the time, and it would be in 1989 when we were told that McCartney was doing a lunchtime gig, right? Um and we went down, I mean, but that was the thing, it was like, oh well, we'll go and check it out. Is there any free drink? I mean, it really was like that, actually. I remember sitting there and I didn't have the I didn't realise actually the significance of this. That I mean, he was going back on tour for the first time since Lennon had been murdered, right? So, I mean, this was a big deal, man. But I mean, to us it was like whatever, right? You know, um, because actually I think Lennon's murder in a weird way, after all the shock, it sort of put the band in the past, it kind of sealed them in the past, right? Anyway, we're sitting at this thing, and I mean, there's a few of the new tunes, blah blah blah, and then he did things we said today, right? And I nearly burst into tears, right? And it was like, what the fuck, you know, like this, and it obviously triggered something in me that I just would have just went, the Beatles, you know, like this. I just kind of forgot on about it, you know, and how brilliant it was, right? Uh, and then so the first time that I met Marca was 2006, um, and I interviewed him multiple times in different uh ways and scenarios and stuff like that, which is documented in my uh Man on the Run book, which came out in 2013. But then obviously, I've also met Ringo, I met George Martin and interviewed him at Abbey Road. Um, I've interviewed, you know, offspring, you know, I've interviewed Sean many times, Danny, Zach. Uh, but probably the most special one for me was in 2010 I went to New York and interviewed Yoko in the kitchen at the Dakota, which, you know, as we know, is not something that happens very often. And when I got there, I was amazed really. Well, I mean, for a start, I mean, I was sitting in the concierge office, right? And it just I can't remember what had happened. I think he'd phoned up or whatever. But anyway, I was I was there for maybe 10-15 minutes waiting. Uh, and this guy's like flipping through this leather-bound book, right? Showing me all the different people. Oh, here's Lauren Bacall when she lived here and stuff. And all I was thinking was, this is where he stumbled when he was shot, you know, into this very room. Anyway, I knew that they had an office, or she had an office on the ground floor, I think it was. Um, anyway, I thought I was going to be interviewing her there, and then the concierge dude said to me, Now I'll go up to the seventh floor. And I mean, even in the left, it was like, What the hell? You know. So it was amazing, really. You know, she gave me a little tour of the apartment. Um, you know, there's the dining room with the Lennon Warhol above the dining table and stuff like that. And then we went through to the kitchen, uh, and that's where we did the interview. But I mean, I just kept on thinking, bloody hell, I'm in John Lennon's house, you know, it's just I mean I had Yoko's house, obviously. But it was quite spooky because I mean I really love her. I think she's absolutely brilliant and totally misunderstood, even though I mean I was asking her about some of the more provocative things that had happened uh in the late 60s, and she still had a bit of a sly grin going on there and stuff, you know. I mean, provocateur, really. But she was talking about I was talking to her about how you know she was criticised for not leaving there after he was shot, you know, because obviously she has to walk through those gates every day and all that stuff. Um, and she said, but why would I leave? Because his DNA is here, the things that he touched and stuff like that, and that brought it all really home to me. And that at one point I had this really surreal thought where because the thing is, I I'm often given the edgier people to interview, right? Possibly but being Scottish working class can fucking handle it, really, you know. And I I mean, nobody really throws me, right? You know, uh, and so what was weird is I can imagine that I would have probably been Q's Lennon correspondent or whatever, right? You know, because I would have been the guy that would have been able to handle them, and so uh I had this sort of strange sort of imaginary vision walking through in some sort of older form or whatever, because obviously when you're in somebody's house, yeah, it's easier to conjure that up in your head or whatever. So, yeah, that was but I mean, obviously, I mean, hanging out be mark it. I mean, even if he likes doing interviews just in you know, little 30-minute bursts and stuff like that. I mean, anybody that's uh read the introduction and the outro Tomorrow on the run will see how very one-on-one a lot of it was. And I've I realised that maybe trying to unlock him and get him off the path of the well-trodden quotes and stuff like that was just to take the piss a bit, right? And I thought that he enjoyed that. In fact, I mean his publicist told me I think he enjoyed that the first time I did it. Um, so you know, because you've got to remember him and Ringo. I mean, I just see the you know, this almost the sort of pre-Betel Scouser in them. I mean, particularly Ringo, you know, now that he's gone back to like the rocker look, you know, and the popped collar and all this sort of uh stuff. So I sort of see that in them, and once I got past my initial nervousness, obviously, which is natural, um, then I found that I was getting what I suppose fans really want, which is like genuine encounters and stuff like that, and cracking jokes and having a real laugh, you know, uh, and challenging them, pushing them, you know, all that sort of stuff. So, yes, I have met the you know, the existing readers and you know, entourage and stuff like that, you know. So I've been a very, very lucky dude.

SPEAKER_08

The song you've chosen to discuss today is She Came In Through the Bathroom Window. It was recorded in July 1969 at EMI Studios, Abbey Road, London, and released on the album Abbey Road on the 26th of September 1969 in the UK and the 1st of October 1969 in the US. It reached number one in both those territories and many more worldwide. So those are the facts. But tell us, why did you choose this song to discuss today?

SPEAKER_09

Well, I mean, you could choose. I mean, favourite Beatles song, everybody on this podcast must say the same thing, right? So, I mean, obviously I had a look at what everybody else has chosen. So it's it's becoming a slimmer selection, you know, for your guests. I chose this because, I mean, as I said before, I mean, probably when I was eight or nine was when I got heavily into Abbey Roads, uh, and I played it to death, uh, especially the second side and the song suite. I mean, I chose it because well, first of all, it really grooves. Now, I mean, the Ringo's doing that sort of shuffling hi-hat groove, right? And it's almost funky beetles, and we don't hear, you know, funky beetles very often, really. Um, and so it almost shows somewhere that they could have gone in a way or whatever. So it's almost like a window into a possible future for the band, you know. Look, it's Ringo's finest hour, probably, like as a as an entire album. I mean, I think Vrit Rain is probably the trap which he always cites as well as being like his greatest trap, especially when we heard the original Speed, and you're just like, What? You know, so but yeah, I mean it's really funky, and I mean the other thing is it's uh it's Mark Adoon's surrealism, right? Which we don't hear that often, actually, you know, because Lennon's always the guy that's sort of oh, well, he's the surreal one. So it's surreal even though it was based in fact. Um, so I think that's what's interesting about the lyric as well, actually.

SPEAKER_08

The composition was begun apparently in mid-May 1968, when because Lennon talked about it when they went to America to publicise Apple, but just prior to that was an incident where one of the group of so-called Apple scruffs had entered Paul's home via the bathroom window. Diane Ashley, yeah, and took a few things, which is quite traumatic, I would have thought.

SPEAKER_09

Well, apparently she let the rest of them in. That was the story as well, right? That she'd, you know, got the ladder, climbed the ladder into the bathroom window, and then opened the front door. God bless the 60s, wouldn't have happened now, would it?

SPEAKER_08

You know, yeah, and I guess this, yeah, because they pilfered a few things, including um a treasured picture of his father, um, which probably led to the line they could steal, but uh she could steal, but she could not rob. So the whole place wasn't robbed, but uh but there were some things stolen.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, and apparently he got the picture back from via uh one of the other Apple Scuffs. What was her name? Margot Bird said that she got it back from him, didn't she?

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah. So he he sort of uh negotiated with um with Margot Bird and managed to get that stuff back.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, I mean Diane Ashley says that she didn't regret it actually, right? I suppose because it bought her in uh infamy or whatever, but um but she reckoned that the neighbours phoning them, right, inspired the Sundays on the phone to Monday, Tuesdays on the phone to me line, which is great surrealism, isn't it? I mean it's brilliant, actually, yeah, yeah. I mean, my favourite line, I mean, not being a I mean, I don't know if you want to use this, but not being a huge fan of the police myself, right? You know, um Yeah, I mean I reckon as I always say, I recognise they have a job to do, but I just wish they didn't enjoy it so much, you know. Um you know, that's so I quit the police department and caught myself a steady job. I mean, it's so slyly subversive. And you see them when they rehearse it at Twicken and laughing their heads off at this bit and letting shouting, get a job, cop, you know.

SPEAKER_00

I'm caught by self.

SPEAKER_09

Because I mean, obviously, you know, they've been busted and stuff like that, and I mean that whole thing about Lennon being uh busted in Montague Square. I mean, like Yoko during that Dakota interview insisted that that was a plan. She was like, they had to come in with some of them because they could not come in and not bust us, you know. Um, and she actually said to me, This is in the in the Ringo, but she said, you know, that only occurred to me only a few weeks ago, and this is in 2010 or whatever, that they had to have something, right? So she'd been obviously thinking about this stuff. So yeah, I mean they had a healthy hatred for the police, I would say, actually.

SPEAKER_08

Especially at this time, didn't they?

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, yeah, totally, you know, because the ward just had to get them, really. And I mean, as I later said to Paul, you know, in the 70s, you know, because the whole idea of Man on the Run, the book was this sort of, you know, because Paul had been seen as being a really cosy sort of presence in the 70s. Whereas, I mean, it literally happened, the idea for the book literally happened in the middle of an interview where we were talking about his busts and stuff, and he was always a bit reluctant. It was like, Come on, man, let's get into this because it's kind of cool, you know. And I said, You were like Pete Docherty back then. I mean, do you think the police were sitting around going, Wait, we've got a bit of a slack day boys let's bust marker, right? And he went, Well, it was a bit like that, you know, and I think he was feeling the vindication. And the whole idea, Man on the Run, was that it was this different McCartney that was seen, which was you know, this sort of stoned renegade hippie taking his family around the world with him and making all these strange records as well, you know. Uh, because I think everybody always thought that McCartney's 70s would be super smooth, you know, and he'd be the you know, the king of FM and stuff like that, but it was a way wonkier past than that, um, as we know. Um, so yeah, I mean I dig digress, but yeah, that's that's the police.

SPEAKER_08

Well, he was he was also very chuffed. He you could see him visibly delighted in get back when he came up with the idea of getting dragged off by the police at the end of the roof cog, wasn't he? Yeah.

SPEAKER_09

The drama of it, which uh Well exactly, you know, and obviously being a beetle, right? Unless the caught summoned them we summon a wee rap or a wee, you know, whatever in their pocket, right? You know, a wee lump, um, then they were gonna be released instantly, weren't they? You know, so it's kind of like a fake arrest, it would have been, but it looked would have looked great for the would have looked great, what an ending. Pity it didn't happen. But I mean, even the coppers were scared of the Beatles in a way, weren't they? I suppose. You know, because all the cameras were trained on them and stuff like that, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_08

There was a, I don't know if you know the story, there was a story around that line as well that um Paul tells of when he was in a cab with Linda and her daughter Heather in October of 68, and he noticed the cab driver had um an identification panel that said Eugene quits, that was his name, New York Police Department, which he thought was hilarious because um that's where apparently that triggered the line quit the police department. Well, it's brilliant, isn't it?

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the thing. I mean, it's there's a lot of non-secuteurs in that, but as you say, I mean, there's it's really vivid, isn't it? It's a really vivid lyric, you know, and such a short tune as well. I mean, it's all done and dusted within two minutes, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08

I mean, uh, you know, and it obviously we we should say it forms part of the suite of songs on side two of Abbey Road, which is extraordinarily diverse and jumps around from uh different topics and different musical motifs and keys. It's very rich, isn't it, in its variety and um colour.

SPEAKER_09

Well, totally, and this is one of the things actually that you know, I think uh Jazz Martin's remixes have been great. I mean, especially things like Revolver, right? Where you can hear it really open up and you can hear the reverb on the guitar chopping away, you know, um tax man and stuff. Abbey Road was the one where it's kind of like, is there any point in remixing this record? Because it's one of the best engineered and produced records of all time, uh, especially when you listen to the original vinyl and stuff like that. It's like, could this get any fatter? Or you know, and yet again it's another window into the way that the Beatles might have sounded if it had kept going, right? And it, you know, obviously we can hear the solo albums and stuff like that, but as a collective recording in that same space, I think it's a real signifier of how the the might have ended up sounding in the future, actually. Yeah, so I mean it's got loads of things. I mean, there's so many versions though. I mean, Mark I was toying away with this tune for ages, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, they certainly played around with it a lot in the Let It Be sessions, didn't they? And um that and you can hear some of that on the box sets, plus some uh some bootlegs. Yeah, what what are your thoughts about those? Some of them are quite languorous, aren't they, and quite sort of laid back, and you get heavier piano and things.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, no, this is it actually. So, when did anthology three come out? So late 90s, right? And that was the first time that I'd heard any outtakes really, you know, apart from the rare things that were bootlegged or whatever during that period that you'd pick up in record fairs, you know. But um, and the version on anthology that actually made me love the song even more because you could see where it came from, you know, because it's just a straight sort of groove, and then in the chorus it moves to four on the floor, sort of soul stomp. And you've got George with that sort of watery wah wah part.

SPEAKER_02

She came in through the bathroom window. Protected by a silver spoon. But now she's such a common wonder. By the banks of Iran.

SPEAKER_09

But the main thing is Lennon's playing The Fender Rhodes, which was the new toy that they had, right? I think the Fender Rhodes had only been invented the year before or whatever. So Beatles get one of the first ones, obviously. But there's this brilliant bit at the end where Paul suggests to John, you know, that one of the verses, the Rhodes part could be a bit more flowery, as he says, like classical, you know, and then you know, this these sort of fancy runs, and you could sort of hear like a different version. Like, I mean, probably Paul would have had to get back on the fender roads, really, you know, because he was a better piano player than John, really, who was you know a bit of uh what would what do we used to call it pla uh paddling, you know, where he goes ding, ding, ding, and you know, that I so he's actually playing that sort of I am the walrusy kind of part on that version, and Paul's obviously hearing something a bit fl more flowery, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01

What you were doing then that it sounded like that's the kind of thing that'd be nice to have like one of the verses like that, like uh classical.

unknown

What's that?

SPEAKER_01

What you were doing? Didn't it have a couple of them? Didn't anybody tell them but then just uh you know that kind of variation that it it needs.

SPEAKER_09

But yeah, again, it's a glimpse into which way that track could have gone, and actually that for me when I first heard the C D in the 90s, I thought I wish they'd taken it that far and they'd done all those runs and stuff like that, you know. Because obviously the version's really great, and the I think the frustration that you see with Paul, if you watch all the different bits of it, is he's thinking it's getting a bit linear, uh, and you know, because there are a lot of verses and stuff, and he's it's not moving really, yeah. Um, and so that's why he's suggesting, oh, you know, like in that verse, there's there could be a bit more variation. But in the end, it seems to be that the solution was to speed it up slightly, get Ringo doing that shuffle, uh, and then you're off, you know.

SPEAKER_08

And then I think John cut it down, of course, because um, exactly that's what it's shorter, yeah.

SPEAKER_09

Totally, man, you know, and and also John moves over on an acoustic guitar for those takes. Um, where I'd have kept him actually on the roads, but hey, I ain't George Martin, you know. I mean, I'm not a time machine, but yeah, I mean it's it's such a brilliant tune that it could have gone uh you know a variety of different ways or whatever, but probably less is more, leave it under two minutes, you know. And and obviously when they record it, the the they paired it with Paulythine Palm and you know, because they recorded them in pairs, the ones that they wanted paired. Uh, and then you've got like you can hear you know the super scouse lending oh look out, but you know, but on the outtake, you can hear all the other shit that he was shouting at them, you know, at the end of that take. It's just brilliant, absolutely brilliant. You know, he's just sort of commenting on the oh, that's great, you know, to the rest of the band, you know. Um so I mean it's brilliant, actually.

SPEAKER_08

He says, listen to that, Mal, a call out to Mal Evans, and then oh look out. Which is a brilliant segue into the song, actually, isn't it? That the lookout. I I love that moment. Um, and the descent from that's in the key of E. This goes to A is perfectly balanced. I was going to say about how it worked out. It's it's interesting because it starts in A major, which comes nicely from the E major of Polythene Pam, and then it moves quite interestingly to C major, which is an unusual move. It's the flat third key. Um, but it turns out that's reflected in a lot of the music on Abbey Roads. Something does the same, it goes from C major to A major. Um, Sun King does the same. There's uh elements of this in You Never Give Me Your Money. So it becomes almost like a, you know, not to be pretentious, but a little musical sort of echo of things. And I think that's one of the ways that the the suite coheres is through little things that reappear and occur like that, you know.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, I mean that is it, isn't it? I mean, it's just the the idea that I mean these are all sort of subliminal things, really, aren't they?

SPEAKER_08

You know, but oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09

For that to hang together, there had to be some sort of theoretical musical thread, I suppose, you know, so that it didn't just sound all strangely disjointed or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08

It's and like you said, I'm not sure how much that was conscious or just felt because they weren't schooled musicians, were they? Um, they've they've all were they've always said that, Paul and John and um George, they've always said they weren't schooled, they would just do it by feel, but it certainly works, and and I think that's one of the reasons why that that key thing. I also, I mean, uh you're right, so right about Ringo and the the bass playing's great. Um, it's also interesting to hear George stretch out a little bit um with the little guitar elements in the final version, isn't it?

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, totally. You know, I wish he'd kind of kept that wahwai sort of thing, you know. But I mean what happens is brilliant, actually. Yeah. And yeah, again, we'll learn more and more about this stuff because we know it's now now that it's George, you know. But I think Ian McDonald was going, presumably it was Paul, you know. Um, so yeah, I mean everything goes to Paul, right? Doesn't it?

SPEAKER_08

You know, at one point that was the that was the assumption, but I I yeah I think we know it. I think we now know, yeah, that the um yeah, that that's that's George. And you can hear him sort of uh improvising a bit on earlier takes from other from other outtakes and things. So yeah, he nails it in the end and uh it has a great sound to it. The Joe Cocker version, do you know that well?

SPEAKER_09

Yes, and what I think that this shows, and also that I can see in a Turner version as well of this, is really interesting because I mean it's a really gritty soul version where she sings a rewritten lyric, you know, where she flips the gender and the character is this hustler, but he's also the one that's quit the police department and stuff. I mean, it makes, you know, as much sense as the original relations of it. But I think Joel Cocker, you know, Leon Russell and stuff like that, they bring that sort of southern soul thing out in it, which is really interesting because actually it some it's like the influences on the song have sort of migrated home in a way, you know, because you've got the Joel Cocker version uh led by Leon, I cantina turner, Booker T and the MGs. Do you know that album McClemmore Avenue? Do you know that one?

SPEAKER_08

Yes, of course, yeah, great album.

SPEAKER_09

So this is it, right? I mean, I totally forgot about this record actually until a couple of months ago, and I was lucky enough to interview Booker T Jones right on the phone. And so we'll be talking about this record actually, you know, because obviously they parody the the cover by walking across McClemmore Avenue outside where the Stack Studio was. But he basically said to me that he was so in love with what happened to the development that they made on Abbey Roads that he really pushed the rest of the band, right, to cover the whole album. But it's a really interesting album. I mean, it's just like Battery Windows on there, but they sort of chop the melodies up and you know, rearrange them and stuff like that. I mean, it's mostly instrumental, that album. Um, but you know, so with that one, Battery Window goes straight into I want you, she's so heavy, right? So they're having fun with it and stuff like that as well. But yet again, it's bringing out the sort of southern soul aspect. This is a southern soul tune, really, you know. I mean, Fender Rhodes does a bit of that, but I mean, no, you don't think that. And then, but then all these people, I mean, I even found Ray Stevens, he does a country soul version of it, right, in 1970. Same thing, it's really funky, right? So, you know, we were talking about funky beatles earlier on, and obviously all these other artists are bringing that out, they're sort of teasing out that thread in the in the song.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, and um Joe George Benson did uh a full cover of Abbey Road as well, didn't he? It's interesting that they chose. I heard that's funky, yeah, and a bit jazzy, as you can imagine. But um, yeah, it's funny how the impact of that album particularly seemed to be immense, didn't it? Um, with that community, what you might call because because Michael Jackson and many others covered come together, didn't they? Um this song, there's there's a sort of yeah, it's infused with that soul, isn't it? That this album, without being overtly obvious until you hear the cover versions, and then you're like, ah, yeah, there it is.

SPEAKER_09

You know, but I mean it comes back to all that stuff that they did when they were younger, you know, and you know, recharge what I say, and you know, oh the becoming half your fine, and you know, all that sort of stuff. I mean, there was a certain blackness to the Beatles, really, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they could groove like bastards, man.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, and they play together so much, so yeah. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, totally. Obviously, the Beatles didn't perform it live because you know, they didn't play live again. Um, but Paul's performed it live. Oddly, he did a a medley with his solo track Too Many People, and she came in through the bathroom window. And Too Many People is a pointed jab at John, isn't it? It's the one that prompted John to respond with how do you sleep?

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, it's very mild though, isn't it? You know, I mean it's like I mean, I have interviewed Paul about this and talked to him about that track, and he was saying, Well, it was yeah, and he was saying it was very mild, you know, because what is it, piss off cake is the first words, you know. I mean, it's just it's like jokey shit, really, you know. Um but yeah, no, I suppose that maybe you I mean you could tell me, I've not looked at the chords, maybe it just works in terms of chords, actually.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, look at that, that's a good point. He also did a medley of You get You Never Give Me All Money, and she came in through the bathroom window uh on his 2023 tour. Yeah, it's a song worth coming back to, isn't it?

SPEAKER_09

Um, totally. I mean, as soon as it comes on on the records, you know it's like yes, you know. I mean, I've always felt that actually, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08

So now listen, I I obviously I forced you to choose one track, but um, do you have any other Beatles tracks you'd like to raise as honourable mentions of songs that are amongst your favourite Beatles songs?

SPEAKER_09

I mean, literally, where do I start? I mean, where do I start? Um in my life, I mean, obviously, it is an absolute belter. I think She Loves You must have been one of the ones that completely electrified the four-year-old me. And when you listen to that, I mean, obviously, I was listening to that uh again in detail when I did the Ringo book because I mean it is the beat really that you know sold a million singles and stuff like that. I mean, it's it's so drum-led in in many ways. I mean, where do you go? I mean, I would have to sit and I mean it's it's easier, right, to list the bad ones.

SPEAKER_08

Right. Yeah. I've had that said before when I've asked this.

SPEAKER_09

Run for your life. It's like mate, get that get that one in the bin.

SPEAKER_08

So let's talk about your your work. The Ringo Biography is a wonderful read. Tell me how you came to write that one and what um what made you go for it. You had two interviews with him for it, didn't you?

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, well, I mean, the interviews, I mean, it the interviews are so slight in a way, as you know, I mean, because basically Paul likes to be interviewed in 30-minute bursts, Ringo likes to be interviewed in 20-minute bursts. Now, I mean, I'm always aware of the fact when I interview these guys that you know, so I was born in '67. So I'm I'm aware of the fact that these guys were sick of being interviewed before I was born.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09

Right? I mean, important thing, right? Before when you're approaching something like this, and that's why you've got to sort of think out of the box a wee bit. And yeah, they sort of if you can get them to enjoy the interview, then I think you've absolutely done your job, right? So yeah, exactly. That's what it is, and also be being a sweary Scotsman kind of helps. It's a sweary, cheeky Scottish bastard, basically, if I'm being honest with you, right? Uh, but they seem to respond to this, both of them, right? So where Ringo met him face to face in 2010 at Apple, and that was really funny because that was when he'd uh given up uh signing autographs or he'd done that funny video, you know. I said to you, what was great was I said you look really fucking furious, right? And the thing as well, really grumpy, you know. And he was like, Yeah, peace and love, bastards, which is actually one of the titles of the chapters in the Ringo book. Um, so the the whole idea is they're really just to try and keep them engaged. I mean, when I I did a seconds one with Ringo, which starts the book uh in 2024, uh Zoom. And as I describe, I mean, actually the beginning of the book, what I'm trying to do is let the reader sort of in on what it's like to interview a beetle, right, when you're only given a limited period of time. Uh and I I describe in the book how basically I worked on the questions for about two days uh for a 20-minute interview and numbered the questions, right, to the point where it was just like I thought, well, I mean, if I've got 20 minutes, that's probably a question of minute, right? So I mean I I think I had like twice that amount though, because one of the things that I knew about Ringo is that he doesn't muck around, it's a bit like he's drumming, right? You know, there'll be flowery moments, but for the most part, it's really solid and on the nose. So he'll think about something, give you a really direct, usually really honest answer as well. Actually, I mean I find that with both of them, even if Maka didn't want to talk too much about getting busted, you know. I kept on pushing them, pushing them, pushing them because I was like, this is interesting, it's funny, it's cool, blah blah blah, all this stuff, right? Um, so with the Ringo thing, yeah, we got through an unbelievable amount in 20 minutes, actually, and had a really good laugh, actually. So, yeah, that's how the Ringo books are. Yeah, it read really well.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, it's it's really gripping.

SPEAKER_09

I mean, I mean, I forget that anybody ever reads this stuff, being honest with you, you know, because you're just in your wee bubble and writing away and stuff like that. You're and so when people read it, it's like, oh wow, right, okay. I mean, maybe I'm weird or something, right? But I mean, a lot of the time you're writing it for yourself, or do you're you know what you're writing, what you want to read. Um, but you know, uh you can pick a theme, say Arwar, his interior design company, and then we're off, right? We're off on an entire chapter, or there's the flat at Montague Square, and that in itself is just an incredible story because you're just telling the story of a flat and what happened, all these different people sort of moving in, and so it's an interesting device, and if it's interesting for me because it feels like pooling at a thread, and you're never quite sure where it's going to end. And so, with that one, I did end originally with the bust and me talking to Yoko in 2010 at the Dakota and her saying that stuff about it being planted, but then I went back, I was like, I wonder if she ever went back there again. And it was only a few months later that she'd unveiled the blue plaque there, and I thought that's hilarious, right? To be unveiling a blue plaque uh on the property where you were busted, you know. Because I mean this was a real pain in the ass for him. I mean, this was the whole thing that kept him, they were threatening to throw him out of country and stuff at that America because of this spurious bust. I mean, they found two lumps, didn't they? And I think one of them probably was his, but but you know, I mean, maybe both of them were you bloody nose, you know. That's so brilliant. I don't know what fucking drugs you've got in the first place, you know. But um, so the you know, just to get back to that thematic sort of episodic thing, it's interesting for me. And so then I could I could you know end the chapter with her standing back on the pavement and then say as the kicker at the end of the chapter, you know, but no mention was made of the landlord, right? Who was Ringo? So these things are it's interesting to me to write, so hopefully it's interesting for people to read. And obviously I dig deep into the theory that he's not a very good drummer, which is obviously absolute bullshit. I mean, what he wasn't was a flashy drummer at a time when drummers were buddy rich, weren't they? You know, or not quite that, but people who were a lot flashy and twirling the sticks and kicking the kit over, whereas Ringo was just you know, he was a steady presence, right, but also really creative with his fills and stuff like that. I mean, he says, you know, a day in the life. I mean, he's actually trying to show the holes in Blackburn, Lancashire, actually, with those Tom Tom fills, which is brilliant. I mean, that is so abstract, he's like an abstract painter behind the drums, you know, and you know, come together. You mentioned earlier on. I mean, that drum part, which I mean, I'm a drummer, right? And so I played that, and it's like you would never ever come up with that part if somebody was playing basically what's a blues right in front of you. You know, it's like you know, John's playing a blues that he's ripped off Chuck Berry, right? And then Ringo turns into Picasso behind the kit.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, you also, you know, on the Beatles front wrote Man on the Ram, which is has it been is has the um documentary been based on your book? Because it's the same title.

SPEAKER_09

That's an interesting question, isn't it? Well, I mean, I'll tell you what it is, right? The title was clearly heavily inspired, right? Um uh between me and you and your readers. Um basically what what what happened was after that came out, um, there was Toko a biopic based on the book. Um, and it got quite far actually, and Marker had endorsed it uh and said get in touch with such and such in New York about the music and stuff like that. Um and then the process went on, Studio Canal got involved, the producer got involved, there was a script, all this sort of stuff, and then negotiations really broke down over the music, or possibly, I'm just guessing, but possibly maybe some of the material that was in it, right? Because I mean it's it started off with uh uh nervous breakdown, and I mean the writers had really gone for it, actually, you know, and Paul's always saying all it was nearly a nervous breakdown and stuff, but obviously from the outside, there's no nearly about it, actually. I mean, if you're drinking when you get up in the morning, then you know. Uh, but anyway, you know, so that went on and on and on. Uh, and then I heard that um well I actually emailed Scott Roger, uh, Marcus Manager, and said, Look, maybe we should do it as a doc. Uh, and um he said we're doing something official based on this, you know. And so I was quite surprised. You know, I went through a range of emotions when I saw. I mean, it's like being honest with me. I mean, the title had been used for some feature in the 80s, it wasn't even my title. One of my friends, Simon Goddard, came up with it in the pub when I said that I was thinking about doing this thing, you know. So, I mean, yes, a range of emotions, but the ultimate one was flattery, right? Because if you've been plagiarized by a beetle, that's gotta be on the CV, isn't it, man? You know, and I think between the pleasure that uh McCartney's brought into my life and you know that little lift, um, I think we're more than equal, really, you know.

SPEAKER_08

So how can people find out more about you and your books? Is there a place online that people can go to find out about you?

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, I mean, I'm on Instagram, Facebook, uh what I like to call Twitter. Uh refuse to call it X. Um, I don't have a website because I think they're a bit old heart now, but yeah, I'm not hard to find, even if there are a million Tom Doyles.

SPEAKER_08

But listen, it's been amazing talking to you today about the Beatles, and specifically, she came in through the bathroom window. It's been great. Brilliant. Thank you very much.

unknown

One, two, three, four.

SPEAKER_08

Thanks for listening to my favourite Beatles song. If you like the podcast, please consider giving it a rating or review on your favourite podcast platform. This helps me to reach new listeners. You can follow the podcast on x.com, Instagram, and Facebook. Look for the links in the show notes. Thanks to Joe Kane for the fantastic music and Mark Cunningham for the logo design. I'll see you next time.